--- Log for 05.09.116 Server: barjavel.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 7 days and 18 hours ago 00.00.46 Quit soap (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 00.07.02 Quit edhelas (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 00.15.54 Quit bertrik (Quit: "This incident will be reported") 00.19.23 # <__builtin> prof_wolfff: you there? 00.21.27 Quit paulk-collins (Quit: Leaving) 00.28.23 # __builtin: yes, here :) 00.29.49 # <__builtin> alright, I'm probably in way over my head here 00.29.58 # <__builtin> but I want to take a crack at reverse-engineering the TV out 00.33.06 # AFAIK there is not public info about the TV out controller, have the base address annotated somewhere, it has hundreds of registers 00.42.59 # in my notes base addresses 0x3910000, 0x3920000, 0x3930000 and clockgates 14,15,16 are marked as "svideo related", i have no more info about it, searching for these ones in OF produces matches on OSOS and diagmode 00.43.28 # *0x3910_0000, 0x3920_0000, 0x3930_0000 00.48.31 Join shdwprince [0] (~textual@130.180.218.124) 00.48.37 Quit ender` (Quit: cannibal, n. someone who's fed up with people) 00.51.42 Quit Roblimo (Read error: No route to host) 00.52.44 # <__builtin> ooh... "HandleTVSignal" 01.01.01 # __builtin: if you are interested i can send you my IDA files, there is nothing about video out, but other low level functions are documented, anyway be aware that almost all my comments are in spanish and some of them are wrong 01.01.34 # <__builtin> does the demo IDA support opening saves? 01.01.47 Join Roblimo [0] (~Roblimo@172.58.46.155) 01.01.57 # opening saves? 01.02.26 # <__builtin> saved project files 01.03.08 # i think i am using the demo version and had no problems, but not sure, ATM i have no access to the windows VM to check it 01.04.39 Quit Slasheri (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 01.06.40 # <__builtin> alright, I'll try it 01.07.55 # will try to send it to your email tomorrow 01.08.23 # * [Saint] wonders if anyone ever paid for IDA 01.08.32 Join Slasheri [0] (miipekk@rockbox/developer/Slasheri) 01.09.03 # well, i tried that, check the price and forget about it 01.10.03 # <__builtin> lol 01.20.21 # update, if it matters any: I wiped the clip+ with dd if=/dev/zero, and installed the latest firmware 01.20.32 # still no cigar :( - any further suggestions? 01.21.05 # ("installed" = dd copy the .bin file) 01.30.15 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 01.40.36 Join banjo2 [0] (adbc24ba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.188.36.186) 01.40.40 # hello 01.41.28 Quit banjo2 (Client Quit) 01.41.53 Join banjo2 [0] (adbc24ba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.188.36.186) 01.42.02 Quit banjo2 (Client Quit) 01.42.43 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 01.43.58 Join Bray90820_ [0] (~bray90820@50-83-212-56.client.mchsi.com) 01.44.25 Quit Bray90820_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01.45.19 Join Bray90820_ [0] (~bray90820@50-83-212-56.client.mchsi.com) 01.45.45 Quit Bray90820_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01.46.28 Join Bray90820_ [0] (~bray90820@50-83-212-56.client.mchsi.com) 01.46.55 Quit Bray90820_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01.47.37 # I guess it's good news that I can at least see a 3.7GB disk with "fdisk -l" 01.47.49 Quit idonob (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 01.47.52 Join Bray90820_ [0] (~bray90820@50-83-212-56.client.mchsi.com) 01.48.20 Quit Bray90820_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01.48.20 # Is the only option left to use the JTAG recovery method? 01.49.02 Join Bray90820_ [0] (~bray90820@50-83-212-56.client.mchsi.com) 01.49.27 Quit Bray90820_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01.50.08 Join Bray90820_ [0] (~bray90820@50-83-212-56.client.mchsi.com) 01.50.36 Quit Bray90820_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 01.53.50 # <[Saint]> Roblimo: last time we spoke you were just shitting the firmware image onto the storage it exposed, and not actually the ~900MB "recovery" section, no? 01.54.10 # <[Saint]> If that didn't change, then I'm not surprised in the least that your situation hasn't either. 01.54.54 # <[Saint]> also - honestly, a JTAG wiggler (one that isn't shit) costs more than a new Clip, even at inflated hipster resale supply/demand prices. 01.55.56 # not sure we have spoken ? 01.56.17 # <[Saint]> I think I mentioned this at the time but exposing any section of storage that isn't that ~900 (960-ish from memory) MB section won't help you in the slightest. 01.56.30 # <[Saint]> If we haven't, it's an amazing coincidence, but the same rings true. 01.56.58 # Digging around the IRC logs, I found someone with a similar issue back in April 01.57.15 # <[Saint]> any section of storage that isn't ~900-odd MB is useless for recovery. 01.57.37 # I get a 3.7GB section of storage 01.57.56 # is that useless for recovery? 01.58.01 # <[Saint]> Absolutely. 01.58.20 # can I ask, in short, how did you turn the mp3 into a brick? 01.59.09 # <[Saint]> "shit happens and men are flawed and create flawed designs, made of man" - basically. 01.59.31 # <[Saint]> user doesn't need to actually /do/ anything for these devices to implode. 01.59.38 # I mean, on the technical side 01.59.38 # Something crashed with rockbox 02.00.10 # <[Saint]> that points more towards rockbox crashing as a symptom, more than a cause. 02.00.20 # after pushing a bunch of the buttons trying to revive it, probably something made it go black 02.00.33 # <[Saint]> If we haven 02.00.48 # I'm kinda used to do all sorts of fw modification stuff - cell phones, players, portable consoles - and never ran into condition where recovery took more than a hour or so 02.00.54 # <[Saint]> 't spoken, that's unfortunate, because I wouldn't have advised you mess with dd _at all_. 02.00.56 # guess I've got lucky 02.01.04 # <[Saint]> You probably just needed to disconnect the battery or let it run flat. 02.01.14 # <[Saint]> Now...things are a lot more involved. 02.01.37 # lol - I zeroed the whole 3.7GB volume with /dev/zero 02.01.44 # and it has a fresh firmware sitting in front :) 02.01.48 # <[Saint]> yeah, ouch. 02.02.03 # there's no official flash app? the one that restore everything and require only flash clip intact to work? 02.02.17 # <[Saint]> No. 02.02.47 # <[Saint]> And the "ahh fuck it, format it" approach is almost always the wrong one with embedded devices. 02.02.51 # <[Saint]> But we live and learn. 02.03.09 # guess it's a good thing that I've went with ipod and not sansa 02.03.38 # so to summarize, I cannot seem to access the 900MB volume 02.03.47 # <[Saint]> iPods, for various reasons, are virtually impossible to brick. Even misusing the supplied tools it takes deliberate effort. 02.04.13 # I followed the wiki unbricking tutorial as described, and all I can access is the 3.7GB volume 02.04.14 # <[Saint]> very very deliberate effort. they're rather bulletproof. 02.04.36 # okay, so there's that. and what devices are most fragile of all? 02.04.38 # <[Saint]> they're also overengineered and in a significantly higher cost bracket than the Sansas. 02.04.42 # at one point I did get the dredded 4MB volume 02.05.15 # but after following the steps again (which it says to do) I got the 3.7GB volume again 02.05.22 # <[Saint]> shdwprince: none you can obtain easily. 02.06.11 # huh. what about rockbox devices? 02.06.27 # <[Saint]> I'm talking about Rockbox devices. 02.06.40 # oh, sorry, I misunderstood that 02.06.57 # <[Saint]> There's several supported devices you don't stand a hope in hell of acquiring. 02.08.21 # dunno why, but that old rockboxes were really stylish-looking 02.08.22 # <[Saint]> not for a reasonable price a non-collector would pay, and probably not functional, at least. 02.09.11 # so, basically, any old device is really easy to brick, and newer ones just got better soft'n 02.09.14 # *'stuff ? 02.09.17 # <[Saint]> No one who isn;t a collector is going to pay several hundred dollars for a decade and a half old HDD based player with a few GB storage that likely isn't A: complete, or B: functional 02.09.57 # <[Saint]> I wouldn't say "any old device", but a couple of the older ones do happen to be somewhat fragile and irrecoverable without specialist tools, yes. 02.10.16 # <[Saint]> but they're self limiting as you'll pretty much never find one. 02.10.36 # <[Saint]> even broken or incomplete ones sell for several hundred dollars. 02.12.45 # <[Saint]> The Clip model Sansas I basically regard as disposable. 02.13.14 # <[Saint]> Though with price gouging due to supply/demand and them being discontinued, that is less and less true these days. 02.14.19 # they're still good devices tho? havent heard anything bad about them, especially considering the price 02.15.02 # The sound quality/price for the Clip+ keeps me coming back to them 02.16.48 # Sure there are better priced players, and better sounding ones but at the 30ish dollar price point I'm not sure there's anything else 02.21.02 Join pamaury [0] (~pamaury@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 02.23.15 # Saint - what would cause an inability to access the 900MB volume? 02.34.45 # nevermind - it's dead, fried and now a piece of art 02.35.39 # that's a shame 02.35.56 # found this: 02.35.57 # http://www.rockbox.org/irc/log-20160405 02.36.11 # Some dude had the same issue, and couldn't get the 900MB volume to show up 02.36.42 # so basically that's a Very Bad Sign (TM) 02.52.23 Join CrashBash-Kun_ [0] (~CrashBash@unaffiliated/crashbash-kun) 02.53.32 Quit CrashBash-Kun (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 03.04.33 Quit Roblimo (Quit: Leaving) 03.18.19 Quit shdwprince (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 03.30.16 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 03.40.31 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.) 03.48.06 Quit krabador (Quit: Leaving) 04.03.40 Quit Moarc (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 04.04.51 Join Moarc [0] (~chujko@a105.net128.okay.pl) 04.08.05 Quit prof_wolfff (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 04.20.58 Join prof_wolfff [0] (~prof_wolf@82.159.0.123.dyn.user.ono.com) 04.31.45 Join idonob [0] (~Owner@S010610c37b922980.vs.shawcable.net) 05.30.20 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 05.54.56 Join Bray90820 [0] (~bray90820@50-83-212-56.client.mchsi.com) 05.55.22 Quit Bray90820 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05.56.06 Join Bray90820 [0] (~bray90820@50-83-212-56.client.mchsi.com) 05.56.33 Quit Bray90820 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05.57.21 Join Bray90820 [0] (~bray90820@50-83-212-56.client.mchsi.com) 05.57.49 Quit Bray90820 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05.58.32 Join Bray90820 [0] (~bray90820@50-83-212-56.client.mchsi.com) 05.58.58 Quit Bray90820 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 05.59.42 Join Bray90820 [0] (~bray90820@50-83-212-56.client.mchsi.com) 06.00.10 Quit Bray90820 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06.00.58 Join Bray90820 [0] (~bray90820@50-83-212-56.client.mchsi.com) 06.01.24 Quit Bray90820 (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06.50.34 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@2a02:8108:8b80:1700:6d77:7ea6:5da1:9d11) 06.55.08 Quit neersighted (Remote host closed the connection) 06.55.38 Quit CrashBash-Kun_ (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 06.55.44 Join neersighted [0] (~neer@firebrand.neer.io) 07.26.36 Quit neersighted (Remote host closed the connection) 07.27.10 Join neersighted [0] (~neer@firebrand.neer.io) 07.29.20 Quit neersighted (Remote host closed the connection) 07.30.21 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 07.57.01 Join edhelas [0] (~edhelas@145.133.43.230) 07.57.33 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.) 08.00.14 Join jeremy1968 [0] (67e08311@gateway/web/freenode/ip.103.224.131.17) 08.00.21 # Howdy! 08.01.31 # I've been having a bit of trouble, I installed Rockbox for my xduoo x3 on a 2GB microSD card. I've since shifted to a 128GB microSD card, I've copied across the .rockbox folder. 08.01.43 # But I'm getting a "Bad checksum" error. 08.13.32 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@2a02:8108:8b80:1700:d0d6:4574:8c99:c8e0) 08.15.03 Quit ZincAlloy (Client Quit) 08.16.25 # The bad checksum error only occurs with the 128GB card too. The 2GB card still boots fine. 08.25.00 Join einhirn [0] (~Miranda@bsod.rz.tu-clausthal.de) 08.26.24 Join ender` [0] (krneki@foo.eternallybored.org) 09.03.38 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 09.07.16 Quit edhelas (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 09.07.36 Quit Slasheri (Quit: leaving) 09.08.03 Nick Slasherii is now known as Slasheri (~miipekk@xen.ihme.org) 09.08.17 Quit Slasheri (Changing host) 09.08.17 Join Slasheri [0] (~miipekk@rockbox/developer/Slasheri) 09.08.50 Quit jeremy1968 (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 09.21.26 Quit toli (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 09.26.28 Join toli [0] (~toli@ip-62-235-215-117.dsl.scarlet.be) 09.30.25 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 09.37.08 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@iwl138.internetdsl.tpnet.pl) 09.46.31 Join elensil [0] (~edhelas@2001:1c02:1903:d800:79b3:93ef:fb43:aa2a) 10.41.01 Join paulk-collins [0] (~paulk@gagarine.paulk.fr) 10.48.30 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 11.02.08 # gevaerts: ping 11.15.46 Join pamaury [0] (~pamaury@rockbox/developer/pamaury) 11.30.26 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 12.08.05 Quit shane (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 12.08.12 Join shane [0] (~shane@ana.rch.ist) 12.11.22 Join shdwprince [0] (~textual@78.111.190.20) 12.14.52 Join robertd [0] (c9d3b7fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.211.183.253) 13.06.15 Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador) 13.08.34 Quit robertd (Quit: Page closed) 13.14.54 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@2a02:8108:8b80:1700:58d4:ffa2:c1a1:eab3) 13.19.15 Join bp0 [0] (~bp@unaffiliated/bp0) 13.30.29 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 13.41.59 Join cc___ [0] (~ac@2001:910:113f:1:6a05:caff:fe1c:1627) 14.05.47 Join xorly [0] (~xorly@193.85.203.185) 14.15.51 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 14.28.14 Join xorly [0] (~xorly@193.85.203.185) 14.37.47 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 14.46.11 Quit pamaury (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 15.24.30 Join [Sinner] [0] (~sinner@rockbox/staff/saint) 15.25.07 Quit [Saint] (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 15.25.51 Quit wodz (Quit: Leaving) 15.30.26 Quit uwe_ (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 15.30.33 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 15.48.09 Quit __builtin (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 15.49.41 Join xorly [0] (~xorly@193.85.203.185) 15.53.21 Join uwe_ [0] (~uwe_@dslb-084-056-036-171.084.056.pools.vodafone-ip.de) 16.05.51 Quit krabador (Remote host closed the connection) 16.43.57 Quit xorly (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 16.50.29 Quit einhirn (Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org) 17.08.35 Join robertd [0] (c9d3b7fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.211.183.253) 17.19.28 Quit rudi_s (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 17.20.03 Join rudi_s [0] (~simon@ruderich.eu) 17.21.14 Quit shdwprince (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 17.30.34 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 17.39.03 Quit krnlyng (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.43.35 Join ZincAlloy1 [0] (~Adium@2a02:8108:8b80:1700:58d4:ffa2:c1a1:eab3) 17.44.14 Join rela_ [0] (~x@p200300764D4ADF00BC18F7FF479CF2F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) 17.46.25 Join evilnick_ [0] (~evilnick@d54c3417e.access.telenet.be) 17.47.29 Join ruhans_ [0] (uid76353@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wglrlpbjfyhcrvot) 17.48.06 Join scorche|1h [0] (~scorche@rockbox/administrator/scorche) 17.48.15 Join user890104_ [0] (Venci@unaffiliated/user890104) 17.48.28 Join PhotoJim_ [0] (~Jim@hobart.ip6.photojim.ca) 17.48.36 Join GodEater` [0] (~whoknows@176.250.148.252) 17.48.51 Join uwe_mobile__ [0] (~uwe@static.173.76.9.176.clients.your-server.de) 17.48.56 Quit ZincAlloy (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.48.57 Quit PhotoJim (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.48.58 Quit Staphylo (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.48.58 Quit Rondom (Remote host closed the connection) 17.48.58 Quit rela (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.48.58 Quit ruhans (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.48.58 Quit froggyman (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.48.59 Quit Ivoah (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.48.59 Quit GodEater (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.48.59 Quit preglow (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.48.59 Quit Elfish (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.49.00 Quit ender| (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.49.01 Quit scorche|sh (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.49.01 Quit user890104 (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.49.02 Quit utrack (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.49.02 Quit uwe_mobile (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.49.02 Quit evilnick (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 17.49.03 Nick user890104_ is now known as user890104 (Venci@unaffiliated/user890104) 17.49.05 Quit petur (Quit: Connection reset by beer) 17.49.13 Join ender| [0] (krneki@2a01:260:4094:1:42:42:42:42) 17.49.35 Join Rondom [0] (~rondom@modo.nonmodosedetiam.net) 17.49.41 Join utrack [0] (~utrack@21422.s.t4vps.eu) 17.50.16 Quit rela_ (Quit: Leaving) 17.50.42 Join froggyman [0] (~frogs@unaffiliated/froggyman) 17.51.19 Join krnlyng [0] (~liar@178.114.50.251.wireless.dyn.drei.com) 17.52.43 Nick ruhans_ is now known as ruhans (uid76353@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wglrlpbjfyhcrvot) 17.56.10 Join Elfish [0] (amba@84.201.30.174) 17.59.12 Join Staphylo [0] (~Staphylo@2a01:4f8:190:126a:d70a:378:c354:a3a3) 18.08.01 Quit Jack87 (Quit: Jack has left the building.) 18.12.27 Join Jack87|Away [0] (Jack87@nasadmin/admin/jack87) 18.12.30 Nick Jack87|Away is now known as Jack87 (Jack87@nasadmin/admin/jack87) 18.13.36 Quit Jack87 (Client Quit) 18.16.31 Join Jack87 [0] (Jack87@nasadmin/admin/jack87) 18.47.44 Join preglow [0] (~thomj@2001:840:4243:3::101) 19.07.57 Join edhelas [0] (~edhelas@145.133.43.230) 19.19.43 Quit [7] (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 19.20.02 Join TheSeven [0] (~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven) 19.27.03 Join shdwprince [0] (~textual@130.180.219.19) 19.27.17 Join Ivoah [0] (uid49352@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pijgcwkgmmmwczwv) 19.30.38 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 19.34.41 Join rela [0] (~x@pdpc/supporter/active/rela) 19.43.09 Join lebellium [0] (~chatzilla@89-93-177-91.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr) 20.01.06 Quit quaz0r (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 20.01.41 Quit edhelas (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 20.02.44 Quit robertd (Quit: Page closed) 20.14.04 Join quaz0r [0] (quaz@c-67-183-243-24.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) 20.17.45 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 20.41.28 Join wodz [0] (~wodz@89-77-223-98.dynamic.chello.pl) 20.41.49 # gevaerts: ping again 20.53.48 Join CaptainKewl [0] (~captainke@207-237-110-248.c3-0.nyr-ubr2.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) 20.59.39 Quit CaptainKewl (Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )) 21.00.45 Join CaptainKewl [0] (~captainke@207-237-110-248.c3-0.nyr-ubr2.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) 21.05.06 Part CaptainKewl 21.05.08 Join CaptainKewl [0] (~captainke@207-237-110-248.c3-0.nyr-ubr2.nyr.ny.cable.rcn.com) 21.14.50 Join Hoshi [0] (~Hoshi@acge59.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) 21.14.51 # Hello 21.15.01 # pamaury: how the nwz port is going 21.30.30 Join hoshi_ [0] (~hoshi@acge59.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) 21.30.41 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 21.46.32 Quit Hoshi (Quit: Leaving) 21.47.23 Join Bray90820 [0] (~bray90820@50-83-212-56.client.mchsi.com) 21.51.00 Join girafe2 [0] (~girafe@LFbn-1-8015-136.w90-112.abo.wanadoo.fr) 21.53.14 Quit girafe (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 21.56.16 Join edhelas [0] (~edhelas@145.133.43.230) 21.59.00 Join robertd [0] (c9d3b7fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.211.183.253) 22.10.12 Quit Ivoah (*.net *.split) 22.10.12 Quit Elfish (*.net *.split) 22.10.18 Quit edhelas (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 22.10.51 Join Elfish [0] (amba@2001:1608:12:1:13:3:3:7) 22.11.51 Join Ivoah [0] (uid49352@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pijgcwkgmmmwczwv) 22.14.03 # wodz: pong? 22.14.30 Quit Ivoah (Ping timeout: 251 seconds) 22.14.52 Join __builtin [0] (~xray@unaffiliated/franklin) 22.16.41 # gevaerts: Two things. 1) I am porting picoTTS as plugin. Uploaded POC as g#1389. Now what to do with lingware files? Debian provides it as non-free since the tools to build binary resources are binary only windows exec BUT actual binary resources are considered to freely distributable. 22.16.43 # 3Gerrit review #1389 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/1389 : 3Port of picoTTS by Marcin Bukat 22.17.41 # 2) If we consider this binary files distributable where to hack makefiles to install some binary resources somewhere (for plugin)? 22.20.03 # hmm 22.20.06 Quit Bray90820 () 22.20.24 # I'd say maybe the best way is to have rbutil grab them and install them 22.21.29 Join Ivoah [0] (uid49352@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zyzojjakvowgpahk) 22.23.23 # gevaerts: Our standard approach was to instruct users to download resources on their own (doom, rockboy, etc.). This is a bit different as lingware data are considered free from the point of distribution and non free from the point of view of Free Software rules 22.24.18 # wodz: I'm not sure how this differs from the doom shareware data, really 22.25.58 # gevaerts: subtly :-) The source of lingware is provided under permissive license 'only' build tools are not 22.26.22 # right 22.26.35 # How big are these files? 22.26.44 # gevaerts: binary or source? 22.26.48 # binary 22.26.53 # <__builtin> wodz: awesome! 22.27.15 # As in, how much of an extra install are they for those who don't want them? 22.27.33 # gevaerts: 6.2MB 22.28.07 # <__builtin> can I help test it? 22.28.25 # __builtin: sure feel free 22.28.41 # Hmmm, I'd say that's big enough to have a separate download 22.28.53 Join edhelas [0] (~edhelas@145.133.43.230) 22.28.57 # I mean, that's twice the size of the fontpack that we do keep separate :) 22.29.08 # <__builtin> are the resources compressed? 22.30.07 # gevaerts: Its about 1MB per language and provided resources are for en-GB, en-US, de-DE, fr-FR, es-ES and it-IT 22.30.07 Nick [Sinner] is now known as [Saint] (~sinner@rockbox/staff/saint) 22.30.14 # They seem to compress to about 4.5MB here 22.30.58 Quit shdwprince (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 22.32.19 # <[Saint]> it's only 1/10th the size of /my/ fontpack. :p 22.32.46 # * gevaerts thinks 22.32.54 # <[Saint]> hmmm, actually, I'm not sure I ever updated the link on the extras page. 22.33.03 # <[Saint]> I think that's considerably older/smaller. 22.33.36 # Actually, there's also the GPLv2 vs Apache2 we need to take into account 22.33.52 # I'm still of the opinion that as we're GPLv2*+*, it 22.34.03 # s not an actual practical problem as such 22.34.11 # Apache2 is compatible with GPLv2, no? 22.34.17 # Well 22.34.24 # Apache says it is, FSF says it isn't 22.34.32 # <[Saint]> FSF says a lot of things. 22.35.11 # <[Saint]> FSF's basic beef is that they take exception to the fact that Apache /can/ be closed, right? 22.35.17 # But as we're GPL2 or later, and GPL3 definitely *is* compatible, we can release binaries as GPLv3 while keeping (most) source GPLv2 for those who need GPLv2 compatibility for some reason 22.36.57 # I'd say it would be nice to have a configure option to disable v3-only bits though. For a plugin, that really just means one extra #ifdef in SOURCES and a tiny bit in configure 22.37.03 # <[Saint]> Letting in Apache sources does require some considerations. But I'm not sure how practical they are. 22.37.28 # <[Saint]> Someone could be an almighty douche and fork and only release the GPL aspects and break the world. 22.37.44 # <[Saint]> s/world/PicoTTS/ 22.38.01 # [Saint]: Maybe I read it wrong but Apache license is basically BSD 22.38.43 # <[Saint]> doesn't GPL prevent other restrictions on redistribution, though? 22.39.01 # <[Saint]> and someone being able to go "nah, this bit just isn't open today" sounds like a restriction. 22.39.07 # GPL prevents extra restrictions 22.39.27 # And apache2 has some patent ternmination clauses, while GPLv2 doesn't say anything about that 22.39.40 # GPLv3 does though, apparently in a non-conflicting way 22.40.20 # <[Saint]> Just offhand, I don't /think/ we can do it. 22.40.25 # <[Saint]> But IANAL. 22.40.30 # [Saint]: why not? 22.40.55 # I apparently stopped understanding FLOSS licenses after GPLv2 22.41.26 # * gevaerts thinks it's fine and the resulting mess is only slightly messy :) 22.41.56 # <[Saint]> gevaerts: I guess it's the definition of what restrictions are, perhaps it's a personal thing or I'm misparsing it, but incorporating Apache gives others, even us, the ability to restrict those aspects - and I'm not sure how that sits with GPLv2. 22.42.10 # <__builtin> wodz: how do I get it to run? 22.42.15 # <[Saint]> Someone, including us, could for whatever reason just say "not today" for the Apache bits and lock up house. 22.42.23 # <[Saint]> Which even if it is "right" feels very wrong. 22.42.35 # [Saint]: how? 22.42.46 # "Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, each Contributor hereby grants to You a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, no-charge, royalty-free, irrevocable copyright license to reproduce, prepare Derivative Works of, publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute the Work and such Derivative Works in Source or Object form" 22.42.47 # __builtin: it is viewer. Open context menu on .txt file and select open with... 22.42.59 # "irrevocable" is fairly unambiguous I'd say 22.43.43 # <__builtin> it seems to lock up for me 22.44.02 # <[Saint]> that's only IFF you release the source, (no?) which you're not required to do, by my understanding. 22.44.14 # <[Saint]> see: Android - the only ones I know of who ever tested this 22.44.17 # Are we planning not to release the source? 22.44.34 # <[Saint]> Someone else may not. Which is where (I think) this gets messy. 22.44.50 # <[Saint]> I'm thinking down the chain...not necessarily us. 22.45.39 # If someone else does that, they either have to strip out all the GPL source first (in which case it's picotts they're distributing, not rockbox), or they have to violate the gpl 22.45.42 # <[Saint]> To me that sounds very much like an added restriction. Even if it is optional. 22.47.25 # <[Saint]> But, does it violate the GPL? Android kernel springs to mind. Android ended up a multilicense GPL/Apache distributed work and they sure managed to withhold the Apache aspects. 22.47.39 # <[Saint]> Albeit precisely once. 22.47.57 # * gevaerts is a bit confused 22.48.21 # All involved parties agree that the kernel/userspace split there is *not* "linking" in the GPL sense 22.48.31 # So I don't see how that's relevant 22.49.34 # __builtin: have you copied lingware files to the right place? (.rockbox/lang_pico dir) 22.49.42 # <__builtin> yes 22.49.44 # <[Saint]> Hmmm, that's a fair point. I guess I forgot that I didn't agree with their definition of linking/distributed works. 22.50.09 # Also, as far as I can see your argument would apply equally to the BSD licenses, and we *do* have plenty of source under those 22.50.18 Join shdwprince [0] (~textual@130.180.219.19) 22.50.47 # <[Saint]> Yes. i do seem to recall having that discussion with you at some point many moons ago. 22.51.06 # <[Saint]> I think when we went GPLv2. 22.51.15 # plus, presumably :) 22.51.21 # <[Saint]> Ah, yes. 22.52.12 # <[Saint]> So, yes. OK. I concede. We can get away with it. It feels dirty though. But I now understand that's for largely personal reasons and not legal reasons. 22.52.34 # <__builtin> wodz: it also crashes on hardware 22.52.46 # <__builtin> "undefined instruction" 22.52.53 # __builtin: which hardware? 22.52.57 # <__builtin> ipod6g 22.53.19 Quit shdwprince (Client Quit) 22.53.20 # * __builtin will try to debug 22.53.22 # __builtin: interesting 22.56.42 # So the BIG question is: Can we include Apache2 licensed code or not? Plugins are linked to core technically and hence are linked with GPL2. 22.57.42 # I say "yes", but if we do the resulting *binaries* have to be GPLv3+, not GPLv2+ 22.57.56 # Which really doesn't change anything at all 22.59.35 # Personally I'd add a configure switch to enable building in fully GPLv2-compatible mode, but that would not be the default, and it really is just about nitpicking 22.59.40 # <__builtin> wodz: ok, I've figured out that it crashes in pico_initialize 23.00.25 # <[Saint]> A GPLv2 compat build flag would be trivial. 23.00.50 # Well, as long as the non-compatible bits can be left out fairly easily anyway 23.01.22 # For a plugin it's trivial, but if it's the ATA driver on some target it would be a bit annoying 23.01.23 # <[Saint]> I would opt to add that as an axcercise for the user normally, but it would be so trivial to include that...well, why not. Basically. 23.01.29 # <[Saint]> Right. 23.01.49 # But for the case we're discussing, it's really a non-issue 23.02.21 # <[Saint]> I'd wager a majority of people don't even use voice and wouldn't notice wither way. 23.02.33 # <[Saint]> *either 23.03.01 # <__builtin> wodz: the error seems to be non-deterministic 23.03.28 # <__builtin> a.k.a. it changes each time 23.03.31 # I imagine this might evolve into a core (non-plugin) thing, but even then building without TTS almost certainly is something we want to allow for binsize reasons even if it's not about licenses 23.03.59 Join Bray90820 [0] (~bray90820@50-83-212-56.client.mchsi.com) 23.04.02 Quit lebellium (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 48.0.2/20160823121617]) 23.04.07 # <[Saint]> I kinda like the idea of the voicing system being modular. 23.04.21 # __builtin: Could be memory alignment. Try to load txt file which has filesize % 4 = 0 23.04.23 # <[Saint]> I /think/ that's an aspect wodz seems to enjoy as well. 23.04.40 # <[Saint]> The idea that the voicing system could be easily plugged in and out is appealing. 23.04.57 # Well, I still want relocatable plugins for that sort of thing, but someone has to actually *do* it :) 23.05.43 # <[Saint]> wodz: presumably that was something you were shooting for, or is that a happy accident? 23.05.58 # <[Saint]> re: modular pluggable voicing system 23.06.00 # If it's just the one module you want it for, you can link it at the end (or start) of the audio buffer and handle it that way 23.06.16 # Fairly trivial, but also fairly non-flexible if people want more stuff to be modular 23.06.41 # <__builtin> wodz: still crashes, this time with a "data abort" 23.07.00 # <__builtin> I've got it narrowed down a bit more 23.08.03 # [Saint]: I started to work on relocatable plugins because I tried to port flite TTS back then. The final was I did POC for relocatable plugins and lost interest in porting flite :-) 23.08.56 # * [Saint] nods 23.09.00 # <[Saint]> Thanks. 23.10.05 # <__builtin> wodz: alright, it's on the line 'sysMM = picoos_newMemoryManager(rest_mem, rest_mem_size, enableMemProt ? TRUE : FALSE);' in libsvox/picoapi.c 23.10.16 # <__builtin> around line 105 23.15.54 # __builtin: I still think this due to alignment. I didn't pay much attention to this. Will look later. 23.30.42 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 23.32.50 Quit wodz (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 23.49.57 Quit alexweissman (Remote host closed the connection) 23.50.38 Join alexweissman [0] (~alexweiss@c-68-51-123-75.hsd1.in.comcast.net) 23.50.41 Quit edhelas (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)