--- Log for 09.12.116  Server: verne.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 2 days and 15 hours ago

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00.12.29 #       <[Saint]> __builtin: I may or may not be slightly, terribly, or catastrophically wrong on this but I'm not positive you can.
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00.26.58 #       <__builtin> what the heck is the return value supposed to do then?
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01.02.51 #       <[Saint]> __builtin: I'm not sure I'm parsing the question properly.
01.03.32 #       <[Saint]> Why would you expect a return value to return anything if the function is canceled?
01.04.36 #       <[Saint]> Return values (generally speaking) are for reporting success/fail, and the function needs to arrive at that destination itself.
01.07.49 #       <gevaerts> What does "the function needs to arrive at that destination itself" mean?
01.08.23 #       <[Saint]> either success or fail as destinations.
01.09.03 #       <[Saint]> abruptly canceled, presumably by something external, isn't something I would expect to get a valid (or any) return for.
01.09.28 #       <gevaerts> Why not?
01.10.52 #       <[Saint]> How is it deriving it is canceled?
01.11.11 #       <[Saint]> And, what is reporting it if it is?
01.12.55 #       <gevaerts> set_int() calls option_screen()
01.13.20 #       <gevaerts> Presumably "canceled" means the user has said they changed their mind
01.13.33 #       <[Saint]> AFAIK set_int only knows if it did or didn't do what is asked of it. Perhaps I'm parsing this too literally, or not looking at it holistically, but how does it know if it gets cut in half by something during that?
01.13.41 #       <[Saint]> Ah. Right. Hmmm.
01.13.47 #       <gevaerts> That's a perfectly well defined behaviour
01.14.08 #       <gevaerts> Functions don't stop halfway for no reason
01.14.19 #       <gevaerts> Well, except panic() and rolo()
01.14.45 #       <[Saint]> I was taking 'canceled' as 'stopped before a success/fail by any means'.
01.15.01 #       <[Saint]> so I was very confused as to why you'd expect a return from that.
01.15.12 #       <gevaerts> Yes, but that doesn't *mean* anything
01.16.03 #       <gevaerts> "Oh, the CPU changed its mind" means the device is broken, it's not something normal software needs to take into account
01.17.48 #       <[Saint]> Without looking I'd be surprised if it took into account something else abruptly stopping that thread. If that is expected and defined behavior, then, well done.
01.18.31 #       <[Saint]> Can't say it would be something I'd think to account for.
01.18.45 #       <gevaerts> Threads that get interrupted get restarted
01.19.44 #       <gevaerts> Also, if the thread gets stopped there is *no* return value, not a wrong one. There also is no caller to look at it
01.19.53 #       <gevaerts> s/stopped/killed/
01.20.31 #       <[Saint]> well, I did say 'valid (or any)'.
01.20.37 #       <[Saint]> But, you're right - that's fair,
01.21.37 #       <[Saint]> I guess my line of thinking relies upon a delicious set of esoteric fails, or a deliberate attempt to break things.
01.22.08 #       <gevaerts> It relies on a world in which working software is impossible
01.22.27 #       <[Saint]> so, reality then. ;)
01.23.13 #       <gevaerts> I didn't say bug-free sofrware
01.23.16 #       <gevaerts> Different thing
01.23.49 #       <gevaerts> Also, "impossible" as in "don't expect it to work, ever", not "expect a few issues every now and then"
01.25.02 #       <[Saint]> Right. I guess that helps highlight one of the issues at hand.
01.25.06 #       <[Saint]> Ambiguity.
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02.52.45 #       <Harbec> sup rockbox
02.54.22 #       <Harbec> what program on windows is good to manage music filenames/data?
02.58.38 #       <[Saint]> MusicBrainz Picard.
02.58.49 #       <[Saint]> There's really no other competition.
02.59.12 #       <[Saint]> But, I implore you - _please_ work with a backup copy of your media.
02.59.44 #       <[Saint]> No matter what software you use, make sure you're doing so with a backup copy and then if you feel you're satisfied replace the originals after the fact.
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03.49.33 #       <__builtin> oh crap, why isn't this 6G rebooting!?
03.50.16 #       <__builtin> I hold MENU+SELECT for at least 30 seconds and nothing happens
03.50.24 #       <__builtin> it's crashed on a data abort
03.52.14 #       <__builtin> weird, I just had to hold it for a lot longer than usual...
03.52.28 #       <[Saint]> __builtin: it shouldn't be able to ignore that...
03.52.33 #       <[Saint]> that's, unusual.
03.52.44 #       <__builtin> maybe the buttons are jacked
03.52.59 #       <__builtin> it works now, probably I wasn't holding them correctly or something
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04.55.43 #       <dongs> > Picard is a cross-platform music tagger written in Python
04.55.49 #       <dongs> so many red flags
04.56.02 #       <dongs> cross-platform: BZZZT
04.56.04 #       <dongs> python: bzzt
04.56.14 #       <dongs> means it doenst work properly on any platform, skipping.
04.56.26 #       <dongs> i'll stick to naming all my files track??.mp3 and keeping them all in one folder
05.12.35 #       <[Saint]> Better uninstall Rockbox then since we're cross-platform and have python utilities.
05.12.40 #       <[Saint]> Actually...please do.
05.15.24 #       <dongs> obviosuly not the crossplatform im talking about
05.19.08 #       <[Saint]> I'm not sure you're even aware of what you're talking about.
05.19.22 #       <[Saint]> I'm not sure what you think crossplatform means...
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05.25.21 #       <[Saint]> I'm genuinely curious though. I struggle to find any situation where any widely accepted definition of crossplatform doesn't apply to Rockbox.
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14.15.17 #       * Bilgus 8 hrs later MusicBrainz is ok -->http://www.mp3tag.de/en/ <- this one is ok as well Mac/Windows
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21.26.58 #       <prg318> So my old old iPod (5.5gen) is finally dying and i'm debating replacing it.  I plan to look through the hardware support in more detail, but does anyone have any general recommendations for modern hardware that rockbox runs on?
21.27.41 #       <beanbag-> prg318, 
21.27.42 #       <fs-bluebot> 3Gerrit review #318 at http://gerrit.rockbox.org/r/318 : 3Support technically invalid image/jpg mimetype in tags. by Frank Gevaerts
21.27.43 #       <prg318> really just looking for something with disk space ~100GB+(?) and sturdy
21.27.44 #       <beanbag-> how is it dying
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21.28.06 #       <beanbag-> screen? battery? disk?
21.28.08 #       <prg318> beanbag-: the hard drive makes noise; the the screen has lines of dead pixels; the battery lasts about an hour
21.28.10 #       <prg318> all three :)
21.28.32 #       <beanbag-> 1st and 3rd easily fixed
21.28.39 #       <beanbag-> a) hd to flash adaptor, new battery
21.29.12 #       <prg318> like one of these ? https://www.amazon.com/Card-1-8-inch-Adapter-IPOD/dp/B004FD1D2C
21.29.37 #       <Zero_Diamond> So uh, my Sansa e260v2 is... really messed up.  It refuses to connect to any PC (it just acts like it's being charged) and now it has decided it has 0KB of memory and as a result can do almost nothing.
21.29.39 #       <beanbag-> yep
21.29.54 #       <beanbag-> unless you are doing video that eats up massive disk
21.29.59 #       <beanbag-> fuck a hd in a mobiledevice
21.30.02 #       <beanbag-> too easil damamaged
21.30.16 #       <beanbag-> even then now flash sizes have beat hd's that small
21.30.20 #       <prg318> yeah just 320s, v0s, and some FLAC
21.30.42 #       <prg318> so yeah i will keep that idea in mind - but i was wondering if there was any new hardware that's worth investigating?
21.30.45 #       <gevaerts> Of course those flash adapters tend to be a bit hit and miss with rockbox support
21.31.03 #       <beanbag-> yeah you want to use cf cards that are known to work good with ipod 
21.31.11 #       <beanbag-> some claim dma support and it's buggy shit that flips bits
21.38.21 #       <Zero_Diamond> Is there some way for me to factory reset this thing in an attempt to try and fix this?  I can't find anyone else with the same problem so I don't know if this can even be otherwise fixed
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21.41.46 #       <gevaerts> Zero_Diamond: there's some info on https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/SansaAMSUnbrick although 0 does seem a bit unusual
21.42.06 #       <Zero_Diamond> yeah, i have no idea
21.42.08 #       <gevaerts> I'd bet on broken hardware though
21.42.29 #       <gevaerts> Does it still boot its normal firmware?
21.42.42 #       * gevaerts adds a disclaimer that he doesn't know much about the AMS-based sansas
21.43.18 #       <Zero_Diamond> I don't recall how to boot into normal firmware
21.43.39 #       <gevaerts> I believe it's hold left for the OF?
21.43.54 #       <gevaerts> When you say it has 0kb, where is that shown?
21.44.04 #       <Zero_Diamond> under Buffer in Rockbox Info
21.45.10 #       <[Saint]> if you're not currently playing any media that is entirely expected.
21.45.16 #       <gevaerts> ah, ok. That's something else and normal
21.45.21 #       <Zero_Diamond> mikmod won't play anything as it just immediately says "Out of Memory" for everything
21.45.33 #       <Zero_Diamond> And attempting to play anything in the regular player is an instant crash
21.46.35 #       <[Saint]> gevaerts: aren't these the ones where SDRAM is modular and can become unseated?
21.46.53 #       <gevaerts> [Saint]: on the e200 *v1* the flash had that problem
21.46.59 #       <[Saint]> Ah.
21.47.00 #       <Zero_Diamond> *PANIC*
21.47.05 #       <Zero_Diamond> audio_reset_buffer
21.47.20 #       <Zero_Diamond> is the exact error it gives when you attempt to play anything
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21.47.28 #       <gevaerts> I don't actually know about the v2 though, but in this case rockbox seems to boot so it can't be just not finding any flash
21.47.34 #       <Zero_Diamond> It was giving a different one earlier I think?
21.47.49 #       <Zero_Diamond> Also forgot to say but I can indeed boot into the OF
21.48.18 #       <Zero_Diamond> There it goes, the message is what I was getting before now
21.48.24 #       <Zero_Diamond> audio_reset_buffer_noalloc
21.48.59 #       <gevaerts> Does USB work in the OF?
21.49.05 #       <Zero_Diamond> Lemme check
21.49.15 #       <[Saint]> its definitely odd behavior. gevaerts is quite right, it must be able to access flash and RAM in some capacity.
21.50.22 #       <gevaerts> I'd say it's either a corrupted filesystem (or flash slowly going bad, which look similar) or some other broken hardware. If you can get USB to work, you can check the FS
21.50.31 #       <Zero_Diamond> Okay, huh
21.50.49 #       <Zero_Diamond> It's actually sticking on Refresh Database in OF
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21.52.07 #       <Zero_Diamond> Oh!  There it goes
21.52.16 #       <Zero_Diamond> I thought it was stuck but it's just going very very slowly
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22.09.02 #       <Zero_Diamond> Welp
22.09.08 #       <Zero_Diamond> Looks like it's a hardware issue
22.09.15 #       <Zero_Diamond> It just charges in OF
22.14.18 #       <gevaerts> That could just be a bad cable of course
22.16.00 #       <Zero_Diamond> Nah, I've tried with multiple cables and multiple computers
22.16.26 #       <Zero_Diamond> I mean not at this exact moment I haven't but
22.16.54 #       <Zero_Diamond> But this revelation on top of those other times leads me to believe I just bought a lemon :\
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23.34.16 #       <__builtin> how should I credit the original devs for the sgt-puzzles port?
23.37.17 #       <__builtin> the copyright statement reads, "This game collection is copyright 2004-2012 Simon Tatham (portions copyright Richard Boulton, James Harvey, Mike Pinna, Jonas Kölker, Dariusz Olszewski, Michael Schierl, Lambros Lambrou, Bernd Schmidt, Steffen Bauer, Lennard Sprong and Rogier Goossens)."
23.37.51 #       <__builtin> could I do just "sgt" and "the sgt-puzzles team", or should I list all of the names?
23.42.23 #       <gevaerts> I'd go for "The sgt-puzzles team (Simon Tatham and others)"
23.42.46 #       <gevaerts> That's what most similar things in docs/CREDITS do
23.43.05 #       <gevaerts> And of course leave all names in the source directory
23.43.15 #       <__builtin> also, "The sgt-puzzles team" or "The Simon Tatham's Portable Puzzle Collection Team"
23.43.52 #       <gevaerts> Hmmm
23.44.14 #       <gevaerts> I'd go sgt-puzzles in CREDITS
23.44.21 #       <__builtin> the first one is unofficial, but the second one is a mouthful
23.44.28 #       <gevaerts> Yes, exactly
23.54.39 #       <__builtin> is docs/COMMITTERS used anymore?
23.55.31 #       <gevaerts> Good question
23.55.39 #       <gevaerts> I don't think it was ever formally abolished
23.55.56 #       <gevaerts> But I'm also not sure if all "recent" committers are in it
23.56.02 Quit    paulk-collins_ (Quit: Leaving)
23.56.06 #       <__builtin> the most recent one is prof_wolfff I think
23.56.25 #       <__builtin> which was definitely after the git transition IIUC
23.56.36 #       * gevaerts should check one of these days
23.57.18 #       <gevaerts> I can't remember if the committer list on gerrit is public...