--- Log for 15.03.120  Server: cherryh.freenode.net  Channel: #rockbox
--- Nick: logbot  Version: Dancer V4.16  Started: 8 days and 10 hours ago

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00.15.19 #       <__builtin> Bilgus: I remember discussion about potentially switching to discourse, which I find to be generally better than SMF and more modern
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09.27.40 #       <Arcegis> Hello, people. I am there to discuss about the transition, since a reminder has been posted by Daniel. Has there been some discussion on the matter already ? If so, where can I follow it ?
09.34.50 #       <chillmaster> which transition?
09.37.56 #       <Arcegis> The one posted in the rockbox-dev mailing list. Oops.
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19.32.35 #       <__builtin> speachy: nice to see you again :)
19.34.06 #       <speachy> yeah, life's been.. peachy
19.35.20 #       <__builtin> I'm mostly in favor of your idea for the transition, with one minor exception:
19.35.52 #       <__builtin> we should preserve the current forums for posterity, as there's a lot of irreplacable content and history there
19.36.10 #       <speachy> yeah, I see that as useful
19.36.25 #       <speachy> guess I didn't send that followup email yet.  whoops
19.36.45 #       <__builtin> as for code hosting, I think we can continue the status quo of Gerrit and a Github mirror
19.36.47 #       <speachy> if we preserve/archive the forums as-is, it should be in the form of a static crawl
19.37.00 #       <__builtin> we could probably outsource that to archive.org if we're clever about it
19.37.20 #       <speachy> because an unmaintained forum, even "read only" is a recipe for.. antics.
19.37.52 #       <__builtin> and yes, we should definitely take the SMF code offline ASAP... plaintext passwords over HTTP is a bit out of fashion nowadays :)
19.38.23 #       <__builtin> as for code hosting, I think we can stick with our current gerrit setup, as it's probably less work to do that than migrate all our review/patch backlog over to GH
19.39.00 #       <__builtin> for build system, I say we keep that as-is with new hosting
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19.39.20 #       * speachy nods in general agreement.
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19.39.31 #       <__builtin> and I agree that flyspray could go, probably with a static archive like we're proposing for the forums
19.40.20 #       <speachy> if flyspray goes, there needs to be a replacement though
19.40.57 #       <__builtin> github issues?
19.40.58 #       <speachy> I know at some point I brought up the notion of mass-closing everything on flyspray that's over a few years old.  I don't recall if that ever happened
19.41.24 #       <__builtin> except that'll be a pain to integrate if we continue to use gerrit in parallel...
19.42.06 #       <speachy> not all that bad, at my last employer we had a FS->Gerrit setup going until $corporate forced us all onto Jira
19.42.34 #       <__builtin> flyspray to gerrit? how?
19.43.05 #       <speachy> nothing major, just the ability to reference into each other.  There wasn't any serious workflow integration.
19.43.15 #       <__builtin> ah, makes sense
19.43.41 #       <__builtin> so we could probably move issue tracking to github while keeping day-to-day patch sets on Gerrit?
19.44.27 #       <speachy> GH Issues isn't great, but like most "ingerated" tooling, if you're not using GH workflows it loses a lot of its appeal.
19.45.38 #       <__builtin> we don't need all that much from an issue tracker, do we? It's just a central place to dump bug reports, no?
19.45.57 #       <speachy> exactly.  And that's where flyspray is awesome.  :)
19.46.47 #       <speachy> upgrade the existing instance to what upstream is maintaining, force-close the truly ancient stuff, and we preserve history and still have a useful tool.
19.46.58 #       <__builtin> I'm convinced then
19.47.06 #       <speachy> but one thing that we need is a single unified login for everything.
19.47.55 #       <__builtin> well, gerrit supports oauth for sure, and Discourse appears to as well
19.49.18 #       <__builtin> flyspray does as well
19.50.05 #       * speachy nods.
19.50.31 #       <__builtin> there is still the question of who to host, but I think if you're still willing you ought to do it
19.51.27 #       * speachy is a bit of a distrusting control freak.
19.51.37 #       <speachy> hence self-hosting everything that matters..
19.51.47 #       <__builtin> that makes you the ideal candidate, then ;)
19.52.12 #       <speachy> That said, if I host, there needs to be someone else that also has admin/root rights to the infrastructure
19.52.50 #       <speachy> in case of bus or covid-19 or whatever
19.53.13 #       * __builtin nods
19.53.31 #       <__builtin> though that's of limited use if we don't have physical access to the hardware,
19.53.56 #       <speachy> or at least someplace where regular backups get offloaded
19.54.29 #       <speachy> sure I back up my own stuff, but it's a poor strategy to have the same bus take both out
19.55.02 #       <mendel_munkis> I don't mind storing an offline backup for bus purposes
19.55.05 #       <__builtin> that would be ideal, yes
19.56.00 #       <__builtin> though I think multiple admins is still a good idea for faster response times and reducing speachy's workload
19.56.27 #       <mendel_munkis> I agree with that. just offering what I can.
19.56.40 #       <speachy> my intent is to have all rockbox stuff stashed in a (relatively) portable VM.
19.57.08 #       <__builtin> that's a very good idea - makes the next migration easier if/when you decide to pass on the torch
19.58.57 #       <speachy> DNS is trickier; I'm able to host that too but I'd prefer to not own the domain, just be a technical contact.  But either way we'd need the ability to update DNS incrementally as we migrate each service
19.59.36 #       <speachy> so there's a good argument for DNS moving first.
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20.00.00 #       <__builtin> who *does* own the domain?
20.00.09 #       <gevaerts> DNS can stay where it is for a while longer
20.00.18 #       <__builtin> (largely rhetorical - I'm guessing Haxx/Daniel/Bjorn)
20.00.19 #       <mendel_munkis> who does own it and how much does it cost?
20.00.28 #       <gevaerts> DNS and mail are welcome to stay with Haxx AIUI
20.00.45 #       <speachy> even if it stays there we need administrative control over the DNS zones
20.01.17 #       <gevaerts> True, but that's not necessarily a hard requirement for the initial move
20.01.52 #       <gevaerts> In the long term, yes. I suspect DNS management currently is hand-editing zonefiles, which is hard to allow to other people
20.02.16 #       <speachy> well, if we move everything at once with a bit of downtime as it happens, then DNS can wait, but having zone control allows incremental migration
20.02.34 #       <speachy> gotta scoot for a bit
20.02.49 #       <__builtin> I think it makes sense to stand up a duplicate site first and then worry about DNS
20.09.47 #       * __builtin will send a summary of this discussion to the -dev ml
20.16.07 #       <__builtin> ooh, how about wiki?
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20.31.11 #       <__builtin> and themes/translate?
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20.39.25 #       <speachy> translate & themes are easy to move, and the wiki is pretty self-contained too.   moving the wiki to a better maintained platform makes sense, but the main www site is rather tied together with it all
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20.56.43 #       <__builtin> so continue with foswiki?
20.56.54 #       <__builtin> I don't like it, but I suppose it's acceptable for the time being...
20.57.26 #       <speachy> ...exactly
20.57.31 #       <__builtin> also, IRC logging should continue as-is, too
20.58.04 #       <speachy> hmm, that's not explicitly listed, but yes
20.58.26 #       <__builtin> there's a bunch of miscellania that Haxx runs, and I bet we're forgetting some
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20.59.07 #       <speachy> so, assuming I undertake this
20.59.11 #       * __builtin is trying to write up a plan that we can broadcast to the community and devs for a consensus
20.59.45 #       <speachy> to get started I'll need an appropriate system image or sufficient credentials on the exising systems to exfiltrate everything.
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21.00.37 #       <__builtin> you'll want to talk to zagor[m]/bagder and scorche about that
21.00.39 #       <speachy> I can light it up on my own infrastructure, get the (major) kinks out, have a few other folks kick the wheels, then mark the main site read-only, exfiltrate all remaining/new data, and flip DNS
21.00.51 #       * __builtin nods
21.01.31 #       <mendel_munkis> speachy: if you do that do you plan on using newer versions of gerrit/flyspray?
21.02.06 #       * __builtin can lend a hand if needed but suspects this is best done as a one-person job
21.02.23 #       <speachy> I'd want to use the existing versions as-is to start with, and after the migration is done then the individual services can be upgraded as warranted
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21.05.51 #       <speachy> it would be nice to be able to share the initial workload.
21.06.27 #       <speachy> but that depends on what form the data exfiltration takes.
21.06.57 #       <speachy> actually an easy first step would be to migrate themes & translation.  they're already independent and self-contained
21.08.05 #       <speachy> forums too -- getting a new solution spun up, then marking the old one as read only then archiving it via some appropriate mechanism
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23.40.53 #       <__builtin> Yes, I can help with that
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23.53.45 #       <__builtin> I'll see if we can use archive.org to our advantage
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