--- Log for 16.03.120 Server: cherryh.freenode.net Channel: #rockbox --- Nick: logbot Version: Dancer V4.16 Started: 9 days and 11 hours ago 00.17.57 Join ac_laptop [0] (~ac_laptop@185.21.213.21) 00.29.42 Quit ufdm_ (Quit: Leaving) 00.29.54 Join ufdm [0] (~ufdm@c-75-72-10-216.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) 00.48.47 # <__builtin> with forums I think we should make an effort to preserve current URLs going forward 00.50.02 # <__builtin> we can make the current forums.rockbox.org redirect visitors to the archived site, and stand up the new forums under a different subdomain 00.50.54 # <__builtin> e.g. community.rockbox.org, discourse.rockbox.org, or similar 00.55.15 # yeah, that seems sane. 00.55.26 # I'd go for community personally 00.55.35 # <__builtin> yeah, me too 00.56.59 # <__builtin> I'd like to reach some sort of community consensus on this before we move forward, though 01.06.51 # any meaningful thoughts on $NewSystem? 01.07.19 # <__builtin> maybe it makes sense to reach a consensus among devs first 01.09.11 # of the "statically archive the old site and move to something new 01.09.18 # ..new" approach you mean? 01.09.52 # <__builtin> we're archiving only forums, right? 01.10.20 # * __builtin thinks we should call this approach the "cut 'n paste" approach 01.11.03 # I believe so. 01.11.17 # <__builtin> I 01.11.36 # granted, if someone else comes along and wants to host/admin/maintain the existing forums, perhaps we should let them. :) 01.12.06 # <__builtin> I think SMF needs to go for the security factor if nothing else 01.12.38 # <__builtin> and its clear inability to filter out bots without human intervention 01.12.58 # Has SMF been abandoned upstream too? 01.13.21 # looks like it's still going 01.13.31 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 01.13.33 # <__builtin> apparently not... 01.13.53 # we're running a version at least 6 years old 01.14.11 # needless to say we're missing a boatload of security fixes 01.15.11 # dunno if modern versions are any more resilient to bots. insofar as any system that allows anyone to create accounts can be. 01.15.42 Quit ac_laptop (Quit: WeeChat 2.6) 01.17.18 # <__builtin> how much work would it be to migrate to the current SMF? 01.17.39 # <__builtin> if it's excessive then we might be better off standing up a fresh discourse site and archiving the current forums 01.18.01 # with the caveat that I don't know how much customization rockbox has done, I have to imagine it won't be hard to incrementally upgrade from the v2.0.3 to the current 2.0.19 01.19.00 # <__builtin> I do think that migrating to discourse would give us the longest-term solution, as I think it's likely to be maintained long after SMF is gone 01.19.00 # won't change the structural problems with the forum but at least it won't be a flaming security dumpster fire 01.19.29 # <__builtin> "structural problems" - exactly 01.20.06 # SMF is FreeSoftare(tm), so much like rockbox it will never die. :P 01.20.30 # <__builtin> I mean, so is discourse 01.20.47 # to me it's more about the hosting headaches rather than the underlying software 01.21.02 # whatever is chosen needs to be actively administered and maintained. 01.24.19 # <__builtin> I think discourse wins in that respect by virtue of greater adoption->more support resources/documentation 01.28.53 # My main unease about hosting forums (in general, not SMF specifically) is that it's my (and/or my employer's) neck if a user posts something inappropriate. the rest of the infrastructure is currently limited to more "trusted" folks. 01.30.24 # <__builtin> hmm... makes sense 01.32.06 # I'm part of a research group at $dayjob, and as long as there's no conflict of interest with what $mothership does, contributing to the developement of F/OSS is encouraged. 01.32.59 # <__builtin> the DMCA provides for a so-called "safe harbor" for internet-hosted services, so long as we comply with takedown requests 01.34.15 # we have to have a designated agent for takedowns. 01.35.04 # heh, on the other hand, if this COVID-19 stuff drags on for a while, even download.rockbox's BW usage won't register.. 01.36.53 # it would be interesting to see some analytics on download.rockbox. 01.37.28 # <__builtin> speachy: who is "we"? Rockbox or $dayjob? 01.37.41 # a few years ago I ended up needing to block some IP ranges for a crawler because it kept re-downloading multi-gb video files. 01.38.17 # "we" with respect to DMCA is rockbox. if $dayjob gets a notification directly this whole thing is more likley to get shut down than not. 01.39.20 # <__builtin> Ah. It's not hard to comply though, is it? 01.39.22 # there are a fee layers of indirection, thankfully. I'm the technical contact for my lab's ISP, and the admin contact sits behind me. 01.40.22 # so there's no direct connection to $mothership 01.41.12 # registering a DMCA agent costs ... $6? 01.42.21 # and it can just be a made-up title "Copyright Manager for Rockbox" hidden behind a dmca@rockbox.org alias 01.45.07 # hmm, forums are hosted on a linode server, which means it's already under US jurisdiction. 01.45.37 # <__builtin> there's the slight complication of Rockbox not being a legal entity, however 01.45.58 # the important bit is that there's a published contact 01.48.15 # ugh. the registered agent has to provide full legal name, street address, etc etc. 01.48.26 # <__builtin> Yeah, that's the problem 01.49.05 # well, I do have an LLC set up 01.49.18 # <__builtin> "Hacks" 01.50.02 # I suppose it's no worse than it is now 01.50.57 # <__builtin> so you would serve as the contact? 01.51.30 # * speachy didn't quite realize he was volunteering to become Mr. Rockbox... 01.53.32 # it's not like I registered an agent for anything else that I'm hosting. Granted 95% of it is mine anyway. 01.55.02 # <__builtin> Could I or someone else do it without providing an address? 01.55.49 # I wonder if there are forwarding services for this sort of thing. 01.57.20 # at the end of the day, rockbox is a tiny uninteresting corner of the 'net. Unless someone starts publishing pirated software or music or whatever on our infrastructure, nobody's going to care 01.58.26 # * speachy sighs. 02.00.10 # Okay, given that rockbox isn't a legal entity, there's no point in attempting to register a DMCA agent for that organization 02.02.45 # but it's still a good idea to create some mail aliases (copyright@ or dmca@) that appropriate parties would receive. 02.04.15 # ...that was a pointless diversion 02.07.33 # as part of this migration plan/proposal, I (or whomever) is going to need appropriate low-level credentials on the existing infrastructure for some basic fact-finding. 02.08.21 # with regards to SMF, it probably makes sense to try and upgrade it to a supported version prior to any other actions 02.08.36 # unless we just archive it as-is and replace it wholesale. 02.22.33 Quit MrZeus (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 03.13.34 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 03.18.25 Join MrZeus [0] (~MrZeus@89-168-117-207.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) 03.46.06 # <_Bilgus> Personally even if we just upgrade I thing archiving and read-only the existing forums is a good idea 03.46.19 # <_Bilgus> think* 03.47.05 # <_Bilgus> especially considering ~40-70% of the users look to be bots 03.49.48 # <_Bilgus> Also if we still have dcma hanging over our heads then it really needs to be segregated a bit more I think and very good backups in case shit hits the fan 03.59.30 # well, I back up all of my stuff nightly, including full textual DB dumps. I maintain 4 weeks of nightly snapshots. 03.59.49 # and the backups in this case are separated by about 20 miles. 04.01.17 # and yes, I've tested recovery multiple times. :D 04.14.28 Quit MrZeus (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 04.25.40 Join SirA [0] (4b8dfac1@75.141.250.193) 04.26.51 Quit SirA (Remote host closed the connection) 04.27.15 Join Terrasque [0] (4b8dfac1@75.141.250.193) 04.30.04 Quit Terrasque (Remote host closed the connection) 04.51.40 # <_Bilgus> the themes site probably should be hosted elsewhere 04.52.26 # <_Bilgus> and.. probably the forums as well 04.55.15 # <_Bilgus> maybe themes could be moved to sourceforge or something 05.02.44 Quit speachy (Remote host closed the connection) 05.13.38 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 05.22.15 Join advcomp2019_ [0] (~advcomp20@65-131-155-248.sxct.qwest.net) 05.22.16 Quit advcomp2019_ (Changing host) 05.22.16 Join advcomp2019_ [0] (~advcomp20@unaffiliated/advcomp2019) 05.24.38 Quit advcomp2019 (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 05.43.38 Quit michaelni (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 05.56.36 Join michaelni [0] (~michael@213-47-68-29.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) 06.36.36 Quit Acou_Bass (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 06.39.39 Join Acou_Bass [0] (~eddie@cpc97736-bolt17-2-0-cust152.10-3.cable.virginm.net) 06.47.38 Quit Acou_Bass (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 06.51.36 Join Acou_Bass [0] (~eddie@cpc97736-bolt17-2-0-cust152.10-3.cable.virginm.net) 07.13.42 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 07.38.02 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@ip5f5acf9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) 07.42.20 Quit ZincAlloy (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 08.14.44 Nick kugel_ is now known as kugel (~kugel@rockbox/developer/kugel) 08.16.22 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@2a02:8108:943f:d824:c108:68f3:2e41:1b67) 08.46.48 Quit Acou_Bass (Quit: ZNC 1.7.4 - https://znc.in) 08.49.31 Join Acou_Bass [0] (~eddie@cpc97736-bolt17-2-0-cust152.10-3.cable.virginm.net) 09.13.45 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 11.13.46 *** No seen item changed, no save performed. 11.24.43 Quit St3ak (Quit: Free ZNC ~ Powered by LunarBNC: https://LunarBNC.net) 11.25.44 Join St3ak [0] (~st3ak@st3ak3000.powered.by.lunarbnc.net) 12.25.07 Quit mikroflops (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 12.26.57 Join mikroflops [0] (~yogurt@c188-150-217-176.bredband.comhem.se) 12.29.48 Join speachy [0] (d102414d@209.2.65.77) 12.48.00 # what's the rationale for hosting themes elsewhere? 12.49.17 # I assume the same "untrusted user content"? 12.50.24 Join Rower [0] (~husvagn@m77-218-225-121.cust.tele2.se) 12.57.21 # * speachy has never actually looked at themes.rockbox until a few minutes ago 12.58.27 # does sourceforge host PHP sites? 12.59.19 # themes is much less of an inherent target than forums 13.00.33 # huh, looks like some of the targets are still seeing active theme development. I wouldn't have thunk that.. 13.13.49 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 13.20.25 Join massiveH [0] (~massiveH@ool-18e4eaeb.dyn.optonline.net) 14.38.02 Quit mendel_munkis (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 14.51.34 Quit massiveH (Quit: Leaving) 15.13.51 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 15.55.03 Join cockroach [0] (~blattodea@pdpc/supporter/active/cockroach) 16.30.49 Quit speachy (Remote host closed the connection) 17.13.54 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 17.18.43 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.) 17.38.11 Join speachy [0] (d102414d@209.2.65.77) 17.52.38 Join TheLemonMan [0] (~lemonboy@irssi/staff/TheLemonMan) 18.06.14 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@ip5f5acf9f.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) 18.10.34 Quit ZincAlloy (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 18.16.05 Quit sakax (Remote host closed the connection) 19.13.55 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 19.22.31 Join ZincAlloy [0] (~Adium@2a02:8108:943f:d824:c8bd:f9f7:3406:9747) 19.27.07 Quit Marex (*.net *.split) 19.27.16 Join Marex [0] (~Marex@195.140.253.167) 19.31.14 Join cereal_eater [0] (506e61e1@80-110-97-225.cgn.dynamic.surfer.at) 19.53.12 Join lebellium [0] (~lebellium@89-92-253-148.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr) 20.01.25 # I followed the discussion about migrating Rockbox services. Would donating help? The paypal button on the front page leads to a haxx.se email address. Can this be used? 20.09.34 # Björn is still there, and there's no bad feelings or anything like that, so yes, that's still fine. Whether money would help with migrating or hosting is a question for those who are actually working on it, I don't know. 20.13.48 # Thank for your answer gevaerts. I'd like to support the project and the migratiing process and I am willing to donate. 20.15.17 # Maybe those who are working on it are pleased about a donation. 20.16.42 Quit Xeha (*.net *.split) 20.17.22 Join Xeha [0] (~Xeha@unaffiliated/k1773r) 20.31.45 # I can safely say that donations are always welcomed, though it's a bit premature to talk about specific migration costs 20.36.52 Quit Rower (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 20.39.17 Join petur [0] (~petur@rockbox/developer/petur) 20.52.29 Join advcomp2019 [0] (~advcomp20@unaffiliated/advcomp2019) 20.55.02 Quit advcomp2019_ (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 21.02.01 Join MrZeus [0] (~MrZeus@89-168-117-207.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) 21.09.33 Quit cereal_eater (Remote host closed the connection) 21.13.59 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 21.14.00 Join krabador [0] (~krabador@unaffiliated/krabador) 21.36.30 Quit mikroflops (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 21.43.08 Join mikroflops [0] (~yogurt@c188-150-217-176.bredband.comhem.se) 21.58.23 Quit _Bilgus (Quit: Leaving) 22.12.41 Join lodzie [0] (7652f493@118.82.244.147) 22.13.06 # hey yall 22.13.15 # got a basic understanding of rockbox and c# 22.13.23 # and i own a modded toshiba gigabeat f 22.13.33 # hi 22.13.45 # just wondering if anyone had any forum posts or a how to on how to develop plugins in c or lua 22.13.46 # rockbox is written mostly in C, not c# 22.14.10 # I think there is an example plugin, IIRC 22.14.20 # link? 22.15.16 # apps/plugins/helloworld.c 22.16.40 # https://github.com/Rockbox/rockbox/blob/master/apps/plugins/helloworld.c 22.16.47 # thanks so much mate 22.16.53 # https://github.com/Rockbox/rockbox/blob/master/apps/plugins/helloworld.lua 22.17.42 # damn the lua one is complex 22.18.15 # also what do i use to compile? 22.18.47 # https://www.rockbox.org/wiki/HowToCompile 22.18.59 # thanks 22.20.47 # just asking, any ideas for plugins? emulators, utilities, anything. 22.20.58 # really wanna get into the rockbox community 22.21.08 # even happy to patch bugs on an old one :) 22.22.37 # I think people here are happy to see someone still interested 22.23.16 # but honestly I think you'll probably not get a lot of help because it's been years since the peak of active development 22.23.21 # to put it mildly 22.23.55 # yea, i got a general sense that this whole thing is dead lol 22.24.19 # im currently making a copy of EVERYTHING rb related as a proxy for after bjorn takes it down in 2021 22.24.36 # ill post the link here when it's done and up and running 22.24.45 # but in terms of plugins... 22.24.46 # that's really not necessary at this time. 22.24.55 # there is a migration plan of sorts in place 22.24.56 # all source code is already mirrored 22.25.00 # though one more backup probably wont hurt 22.25.08 # ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 22.25.10 # everythign else will be migrated in one form or another 22.25.15 # always good to have another 22.25.48 # anyways, just setting up the vmware image 22.25.52 # it's not "mirrors" that matter though -- it's someone(s) that make sure it keeps going. :) 22.25.55 # excited to stary working on this L) 22.26.04 # :) 22.26.21 # technology is easy, people are hard 22.26.29 # nah 22.26.57 # im a 14 year old dirtbag whiio has nothing better to do with his life then mess around with cfw's for obsolete products 22.27.50 # so rb fits perfectly XD 22.28.22 # it's always good to have a specific project/goal in mind. 22.28.33 # yea 22.28.34 # some itch of your own that you are scratching at 22.29.07 # I learned that just learning new stuff can be a good goal too 22.29.30 # and having fun doing it 22.30.51 # fair point 22.31.54 # I mean, don't hit yourself over the head if you don't reach the goal 22.32.11 # ik 22.32.16 # ill just do what i can :) 22.32.36 # OTOH, if the goal is to explore stuff, have fun and learn something, you basically can't fail :D 22.34.54 # thanks, ill keep that in mind 22.35.13 # just kinda wanna help revive an otherwise dead community thats all 22.36.58 # good! 22.37.01 # we need people like that 22.37.28 # yep! 22.38.07 # just getting an environment setup now, gonna try a few things, ill get back to you guys soon with any results/questions, cya :D 22.39.45 # good luck 22.39.58 # i had a really rough time building the toolchain from scratch 22.40.17 # there is a development vm image available with everything already set up 22.40.27 # you could start there if you want to get thigns working quickly 22.41.56 # for plugins, I think you can probably do a relatively short development cycle: compile, upload, start, see if it works, exit 22.42.28 # without having to upload rockbox completely each try 22.42.50 # I guess it's probably even a little simpler for a lua plugin 22.43.46 # heh heh. 22.44.16 # overcoming the build environment quirks is a good first step towards demonstrating resilience. :P 22.44.37 # oh, and there's a rockbox simulator! 22.45.03 # though that does remind me.. I had intended to, post-3.15, to bump all of the non-archos toolchains to (at minimum) GCC 4.9 22.45.30 # that alone would solve a lot of the build environment headaches. 22.45.58 # omg please do it 22.46.07 # it was such a giant pain getting the toolchain built 22.46.18 # the general consensus was that HWCODEC players should be dropped altogether, nicely eliminating the sh toolchain 22.46.39 # could also just leave them on a legacy branch or w/e 22.46.57 # with notice that 'hey guys this is dead get new players kthnx' 22.47.00 # it's all in git, therefore is effectively forever. 22.47.12 # ah, true 22.47.36 # the actual concern with bumping toolchains is the possibility of introducing subtle bugs 22.48.23 Quit lebellium (Quit: Leaving) 22.48.43 # im sure any bugs that do arise could be fixed 22.48.57 # yep, just didn't want to do that prior to the first "stable" release in years 22.49.21 # but there's not a lot of manpower here 22.49.43 # $RealLife tends to get in the way of hackery 22.49.45 # could go recruiting on other pleaces 22.49.57 # idk how many out there even know that rockbox is a thing 22.50.15 # standalone DAPs are pretty much an anachronism these days 22.50.49 # i use mine at work all day every day :V 22.51.13 # though recently there have been a pile of pretty high quality units out of China, but it takes a _lot_ of effort to reverse engineer one of those, even if you have access to readable/useful datasheets. 22.51.52 # oh? 22.52.08 # * speachy has used his rockbox'd DAPs nearly every day for something like 18 years. 22.52.29 # didn't contribute anything other than the occasional bug report until just last year though. 22.52.33 # it's all android linux stuff I thought 22.53.14 # no, most Rockbox targets are bare-metal realtime applications. 22.53.28 # I mean the new stuff 22.53.57 # that said most (all) of the commercially-available targets are running as an application on top of the DAP's Linux distro. 22.54.28 # is that good or bad 22.54.52 # we lose a lot of flexibility, but it at least does allow for a useful system without having to write everything from scratch. 22.55.40 # the AGPTek Rocker, for example, has some annoying sound glitches that are easily solveable if we had access to the kernel sources. 22.56.15 # but getting source code out of Chinese companies is pretty much impossible. 22.56.36 # just hire a different chinese company to steal it :B 22.56.51 # i mean its pretty much subcontractors all the way down over there 22.56.56 # like most other problems, it can be solved with sufficient time and money 22.56.58 # someone in the chain is a weak link 22.57.18 Quit petur (Remote host closed the connection) 22.57.55 # Untill a Chinese organization is willing to enforce the GPL on other Chinese companies... it won't change. 22.58.06 # something to push for i guess 22.58.31 # I spend most of my F/OSS time reverse-engineering printers. 22.58.46 # Rockbox is purely for fun though. 22.59.05 # * speachy needs a hobby that doesn't involve staring at computer screens... 22.59.28 # TTRPGs :B 23.01.13 # Rockbox still has a few niches, most notably for blind or visually impared folks, where Rockbox's accessibility features are unmatched. 23.01.49 # but as a mainstream concern, the DAP ship has long since sailed. Heck, I think tube amps have a bigger market these days. :P 23.02.43 # but as long as folks are sufficiently capable/interested/obsessed to port it to relevant hardware, Rockbox will live on.. 23.09.06 Quit lodzie (Remote host closed the connection) 23.10.50 # kind alike people porting linux to toasters and potatos... 23.14.02 *** Saving seen data "./dancer.seen" 23.15.33 # a modern potato has more mips than Linux had available when he started. :) 23.16.03 # lol 23.17.04 # luxury! 23.19.04 Quit TheLemonMan (Quit: "It's now safe to turn off your computer.") 23.34.05 Join mendelmunkis [0] (~mendelmun@75-168-204-125.mpls.qwest.net) 23.38.03 Join Bilgus [0] (~Bilgus@unaffiliated/bilgus) 23.49.21 Quit ZincAlloy (Quit: Leaving.)