Rockbox mail archiveSubject: Re: Avos and strategy (was: avos)
Re: Avos and strategy (was: avos)
From: roland <for_spam_at_gmx.de>
Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2003 15:58:18 +0100
>I'm not sure the XBOX is "encrypted" like any archos product.
yes it is - and it is done very well - it was HARD WORK to break/reverse-engineer that encryption. normally, the xbox could only run
furthermore - please read:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Touillaud Nicolas" <Nicolas.Touillaud_at_fr.thalesgroup.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 9:57 AM
Subject: RE: Avos and strategy (was: avos)
> Sorry for the delay...
> First of all, I (well, I imagine all of us in fact..) agree with 99% of what
> you all say: this is a bad method for making money, we bought the hardware
> etc... (by the way, I'm certain the consumer already paid for the whole
> hardware, in France for instance the law forbid you to sell something
> cheaper than it costed you... Antitrust rulez :)
> But your examples are wrong.
> You talked about XBOX, it's exactly the same thing. This is pretty much a PC
> (processor, ram, HD...). Like the avos when you buy it, you can use it for
> its primary fonction: Play game on your xbox/Play music or video on the
> But you cannot read a DVD movie before you buy the remote control. The
> hardware is there though... you paid for it..
> I'm not sure the XBOX is "encrypted" like any archos product.
> (for the car example I read, it's not a car without gaz tank, it's a car
> with a built-in audio sound system, but the front pannel is an option...)
> In fact, only DMCA "allow" archos to sue people because there is an
> encryption, but interoperability with the loader is something an expert
> could take into account, well, I'm not one :)
> The problem with this is not now, I don't really care about this specific
> device, but your point of view is right: Archos is allowed by DMCA (or it's
> european equivalent) to make us pay for a simple drivers.
> I don't blame them for that, I'm not working for glory, but for money ! I
> just think this is awefull for their reputation, once again, it's a
> marketing choice.
> But what will happen when harware will be encrypted (ex-palladium etc.) ? We
> just won't be authorized (and probably won't be able) to add/remove/modify
> any piece of software without the proper authorization: driver, OS,
> softwares... But that not the place to debate of that subject.
> I just hope Rockbox will not fall for a legal trick.
> Well, have a good day !
> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Fox [mailto:fox_at_woozle.org]
> Envoyé : lundi 15 décembre 2003 18:30
> À : rockbox_at_cool.haxx.se
> Objet : Re: Avos and strategy (was: avos)
> Well I can see your point. But, are they already charging consumers for the
> hardware they built in? Or are they just charging you for the software? If
> archos is not tacking on the extra costs for the hardware (sorta like the
> XBOX), and it is made up by buying the software, I can understand that. But
> its not a super idea. However, if the consumer is already paying for that
> unusable hardware and then your charging money for basically "drivers" to
> use it, then no, I can't agree even a little bit what that practice. Last
> time I checked, most nVidia cards came with drivers from the manuafactor. If
> the manufactor decided to charge money for the drivers, would they sue
> nVidia for offering the drivers FREE on their website?
> Anyway, these devices are basically computers. If your hardware offers no
> protection against use other then lack of drivers, you are just asking for
> it. :)
> It sure hasn't stopped the development of linux :)
> >Boohoo !!! :D
> >-and... frustration ! The ultimate feeling leading to consumption ! You can
> >see the card reader, but cannot use it: AARRGGHHH !!! :)
> >The only drawback is that their limitation is software only, so it can be
> >easily broken. The solution for this is legal...
> >Rockbox is only using the hardware (by the way, thank Jörg for the great
> >work on video playing), it's not unlocking something locked on purpose.
> >Ferengis in Star Trek DS9 ? Too long to explain, but they would aprove...
> PS-Everyone hates the ferengis for being like that. :P
> Of course, it's just my point of view,
> PPS-I'm not trying to strat a flamewar, I think its just a matter of opinion
> whether this is bad marketing or not.
Received on 2003-12-16