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Subject: Re: Sansa e200/e200R keymap change.

Re: Sansa e200/e200R keymap change.

From: Sander Sweers <>
Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2007 00:50:35 +0100

On do, 2007-11-08 at 16:07 -0600, Paul Louden wrote:
> > I am sure it was there a couple of weeks ago. Maybe it was not your
> > change.
> And this is why I'm upset: I posted to the tracker months ago. I linked
> to the tracker entry. I gave warning ONE WEEK before the change, making
> it clear I could do it. You didn't bother to respond in advance to this
> mailing list. AFTER the change though, you responded and didn't even
> make the effort to verify what changes I'd made before complaining about
> them.

I have all the time in the world to go and test every patch on the
tracker or chase down every announcement within a week. Well sorry to
disappoint you but I do not.

> You've not suggested ANY way to address the issues I was trying to
> solve.
See below on issues.

> All you did was say "I don't like them. I couldn't be bothered to
> tell you in advance because I didn't care until they actually affected
> me, but I don't like them."

Again, time which I do not have. If I really did not care I just would
have changed it back myself and kept quite. True I do not like them for
the reasons I gave (and give again below) but with good reasons I will
understand them.

> Next time you're giving feedback, consider
> that perhaps you should attempt actually learning about what you're
> giving feedback on, such as the intent, before doing so.

I did read the description and the posts on the tracker. All I read was
it was solely for the reason of being in line with the other targets.

> > I never mentioned the context menu, only the main menu. > Is the new
> main menu button further or nearer to the scrollwheel than the old
> one? If it's nearer, as it is on my player physically, how can you
> honestly claim it takes more movement to get to a nearer button than a
> further one? You've claimed that it's easier, FOR YOU, to do so, and I
> can respect that, but I can't really see it requiring more movement to
> travel less distance.

Again, you do not listen. It is not about it being nearer or further
from the wheel but how it can be reached. Now I have more trouble
getting to it then before.

> > So it makes sense to you that a button labeled menu does not bring you
> > into the menu?
> If we're going to get technical, the button is labeled "Power".

I am not getting technical here. If I see a text near a button which
says menu I will expect it to give me a menu. That is all I was saying,
you came up with this ridiculous story about a mouse.

> Menu is written next to it. It is, but I felt that with the necessity of a
> unique stop button (for blind users especially, as being able to stop from
> any screen is quite useful if you manage to get lost while music is paused)

True, never thought about blind users. Explain to me why it had to come
to this fight for you to come up with this comment?

> > No this is not the only reason. I own an ipod nano, Iriver H120, Iriver
> > H340 and now the sansa. So I am pretty familiar with how the layout is.
> > On all those players I find the layout perfectly reasonable and I have
> > no complaints but only on the Sansa it just feels wrong to me.
> I like that. "Feels wrong." No object comments whatsoever. Just your
> single, personal opinion.

I gave you my objective feedback but you seem to disagree on it being
objective or ignoring it on purpose. 1: The new menu button is not as
easy to reach compared to where it was, 2: the label menu *near* the
button, 3: I and at least another person commented that we do not see
the point of a single stop button.

> > Read it again for yourself and then decide if this was called for or
> > not. I feel deeply offended by this and next time you ask for any
> > feedback you will not get any from me again.
> It was called for.

I obviously don't agree. This was just plain rude and anger misdirected
to me. I understand your frustration but you really need to be more
careful with what you send out.

> with no concern whatsoever to the issues addressed.

The issue was bring it in line with other rockbox targets (from the
tracker). If there where more I did not find it in the description.

> you honestly feel that your feedback was in any way constructive,then
> please point out where you suggested any ways to address the issues that
> were resolved, as I clearly missed them.

What issues are you addressing as I have a lot of trouble finding them
on the tracker or on your announcement.

> And for the "soo many" people who've complained: I've received more
> positive feedback on this change than negative.

Good for them, what does this have to do with my comments?

> Note that the people I
> referenced who complained MOSTLY complained about changes that were not
> made. For example, one person thought I'd made it impossible to pause
> the music now (untrue, pausing is still done in the EXACT same way).

What on earth are you ranting to me about this? I made a mistake, yes I
am human and sorry for not being perfect.

> the keymap is vastly more friendly to left-handed users with a minimal
> penalty to some right-handed users such as yourself

This is actually a very good point and I agree with you. Again why did
we have to go head to head for this comment?

So to summarize feedback and comments:

1: The new menu button is not easily reachable compared to where it was.
  Needed so left handed people can operate it better. Good point agreed.
2: the label menu *near* the button,
  Can be overlooked and misleading. Was a minor point, don't really care
3: I do not see the point of a single stop button.
  For blind users this is much better. Again good point and I agree.

I am man enough to say sorry about mixing up this with your commit.
Sorry I should have looked better.

Received on 2007-11-09

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