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Subject: Re: Help for blind/vision-impaired users

Re: Help for blind/vision-impaired users

From: Michael Sparmann <>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 11:54:47 +0200

> Hi you wrote:I've been on this list for a while now and have observed
> that although
> the help is forthcoming, there appears to be some sort of differences
> in viewpoint, perspective, or understanding between the sighted person
> providing the help and the blind or vision-impaired individual asking
> the questions. It appears that the developers and others who do
> answer questions on this list, sometimes lack either the viewpoint,
> perspective, or understanding that another person who is blind would
> have when answering a question from a blind or vision-impaired user.
> This affects how well the blind person is able to follow the
> directions and thereby achieve the expected results on their Rockboxed
> player.
> Also there is the fact that many blind lists are set up for top
> posting, while this list is set up for bottom posting and apparently
> this is not remembered by most blind or vision-impaired individuals
> very well, and there doesn't seem to be a very high tolerance level
> when anyone top post to the list. The fact is, this list seems to be
> mainly designed for sighted users who have no trouble finding the
> answer at the bottom of the post without having to listen to a screen
> reader read everything else in the message before reaching the answer.
> Yes, this is the reason blind users usually top post. It's not
> because they want to break the rules, it's just that it's what they're
> used to doing, and top posting is far more efficient for those who
> have to use a screen reader to get through email messages.
> There is a list set up for users of Rockboxed Sansa MP3 players on
> which questions are asked and answered from the perspective of a
> blind/vision-impaired person and where top posting is the preferred
> posting method, as it is on most blind lists.
> I would like to offer this alternative mailing list to any blind or
> vision-impaired individuals who have questions about using Rockbox
> with their players, using VoiceBox, or using the Rockbox Utility. If
> you are a blind or vision-impaired individual and wish to find out
> about this list, please contact me at and I'll
> provide you with the subscription information. The list is not for
> developer type questions though, so if you're interested in the in and
> outs of programming and developing Rockbox, then this wouldn't be the
> list for you. It's meant for those who have questions about using
> their player as a blind/vision-impaired user, voicing the menus,
> creating talk files, etc. I'm a blind individual and have used
> Rockbox on most models of Sansa MP3 players, have used VoiceBox, and
> am familiar with using the Rockbox Utility. I have set up players
> manually and with the use of the Rockbox Utility. I am in no way as
> knowledgeable as any of the Rockbox developers, nor could I replace
> them in any way except as I've stated above in regards to helping
> answer questions from a blind perspective from blind or
> vision-impaired individuals.
> Regards,
> Laz
> -------------------------------------------------------------------**I
> for one am not that incompetent that I need to top post because I'm
> blind. I am well versed with the screen readers I use and don't expect
> anything but to follow the list rules.
> I also don't like leading posts that seem to be made just to draw in
> buyers of refurbished Saunsa players with RB installed under the guise
> of supporting the blind community! Freaking BS!
> Having said this, it's not just the blind RB user that has been killed
> by the list Nazis'!
> yall know who you are don't ya!
> This used to be a fun and friendly list for everyone. The Dev's list
> was specifically set up to deal with Dev questions but still, The Jack
> boots are stomping if some unsuspecting user wants to post a question or
> comment and doesn't follow some virtual idiots views!
> Don't worry, I'm sure I'll be slayed for this post and that's ok baby
> since I have been around RB before any of you list Nazis and I can take it!
> Perhaps instead of marginalizing Blind users, or any users for that
> matter, hand list moderation over to me....rocker... and I'll happily
> restore the open, friendly and inclusive environment that this list
> serve used to be! For everyone! Not just the Blind
> Have a find day...rocker
(intentional fullquote)

Actually I consider the above far more difficult to parse than a
top-posted message, because the separation between the quote and your
response is barely visible in most of your replys, just separated by
"**", sometimes even starting in the middle of a line.
I'd encourage you to add two line breaks between the quotation and your
response, and mark up quotations with leading ">" signs on each line
like most email clients do it.

I also don't see a reason to be that harsh to Laz, because his general
concerns about the perspective of blind/sighted persons are definitely
true. This is *not* primarily about top/bottom posting.

It might also make sense to separate the blindness-related questions,
mostly concerning voice, talk file generation, and such things, to a
separate mailing list (which could possibly be set up for top posting,
but I'm not sure if that's really a good idea) from a clarity point of
view. It might make sense to make this an "official" list though,
hosting it over here.

However I'd have preferred Laz to actually link to the mailing list he
is talking about, instead of just asking people to contact him. That
would both be easier for potential users of it, and more transparent in
general. That "mail me first" approach might indeed be a way to sneak in
advertisements for some of his services.



Received on 2012-05-30

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