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Subject: Re: Help for blind/vision-impaired users

Re: Help for blind/vision-impaired users

From: Christopher Chaltain <>
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 14:11:55 -0500

Laz said originally:
> Also there is the fact that many blind lists are set up for top
> posting, while this list is set up for bottom posting and apparently
> this is not remembered by most blind or vision-impaired individuals
> very well, and there doesn't seem to be a very high tolerance level
> when anyone top post to the list. The fact is, this list seems to be
> mainly designed for sighted users who have no trouble finding the
> answer at the bottom of the post without having to listen to a screen
> reader read everything else in the message before reaching the answer.
> Yes, this is the reason blind users usually top post. It's not
> because they want to break the rules, it's just that it's what they're
> used to doing, and top posting is far more efficient for those who
> have to use a screen reader to get through email messages.
> There is a list set up for users of Rockboxed Sansa MP3 players on
> which questions are asked and answered from the perspective of a
> blind/vision-impaired person and where top posting is the preferred
> posting method, as it is on most blind lists.
> I would like to offer this alternative mailing list to any blind or
> vision-impaired individuals who have questions about using Rockbox
> with their players, using VoiceBox, or using the Rockbox Utility. If
> you are a blind or vision-impaired individual and wish to find out
> about this list, please contact me at and I'll
> provide you with the subscription information. The list is not for
> developer type questions though, so if you're interested in the in and
> outs of programming and developing Rockbox, then this wouldn't be the
> list for you. It's meant for those who have questions about using
> their player as a blind/vision-impaired user, voicing the menus,
> creating talk files, etc. I'm a blind individual and have used
> Rockbox on most models of Sansa MP3 players, have used VoiceBox, and
> am familiar with using the Rockbox Utility. I have set up players
> manually and with the use of the Rockbox Utility. I am in no way as
> knowledgeable as any of the Rockbox developers, nor could I replace
> them in any way except as I've stated above in regards to helping
> answer questions from a blind perspective from blind or
> vision-impaired individuals.
On 29/05/12 19:50, Rocker wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------------------**I
> for one am not that incompetent that I need to top post because I'm
> blind. I am well versed with the screen readers I use and don't expect
> anything but to follow the list rules.

I too am blind, and I feel the same way.

> I also don't like leading posts that seem to be made just to draw in
> buyers of refurbished Saunsa players with RB installed under the guise
> of supporting the blind community! Freaking BS!

I didn't read this nefarious motive into Laz's post at all. As Laz said,
blind RB users have their own perspective, and I think we can do a lot
to help each other, whether on this list or another. I didn't see
anything but this in Laz's post, and I can't help but wonder if you're
bringing something more than just Laz's post and his mailing list into
this thread.

> Having said this, it's not just the blind RB user that has been killed
> by the list Nazis'!
> yall know who you are don't ya!
> This used to be a fun and friendly list for everyone. The Dev's list
> was specifically set up to deal with Dev questions but still, The Jack
> boots are stomping if some unsuspecting user wants to post a question or
> comment and doesn't follow some virtual idiots views!
> Don't worry, I'm sure I'll be slayed for this post and that's ok baby
> since I have been around RB before any of you list Nazis and I can take it!

I don't think that's what makes this list so unfriendly. IMHO, it's the
people who once they know about the rules choose to ignore them or argue
about them. I don't find the list rules that hard to deal with and more
of the lists I now participate on follow similar rules. If you can't be
bothered to follow the rules then you shouldn't be participating on the
list. The list moderators should be able to point the rules out to new
users, who may not know about the rules yet, and not start a flame war
every time they do it.

The intolerance isn't with the people who want the list rules followed,
it's with the list members who somehow feel insulted when they're
reminded there are list rules to follow or who feel that having list
rules at all is somehow violating their inalienable rights to post
whatever they want however they want. I think the list would be a
friendlier and more open place if people would just follow the list
rules either to begin with or after they've been pointed out to them.

> Perhaps instead of marginalizing Blind users, or any users for that
> matter, hand list moderation over to me....rocker... and I'll happily
> restore the open, friendly and inclusive environment that this list
> serve used to be! For everyone! Not just the Blind

First, there's nothing stopping you from creating your own list with
your own list rules and moderating style. Like I said, I don't see
anything wrong with the moderation or rules of this list. I know I don't
enjoy lists where there is no moderation. I join a list because I want a
certain topic discussed, so I resent it when off topic posts are allowed
to run rampant. I like subject lines changed when the thread changes
topics. I don't like flame wars or offensive posts. If you're
alternative is anarchy then I don't think that will make for a better list.

Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail
Received on 2012-05-30

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