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Subject: Re: Buttons in Hold Mode

Re: Buttons in Hold Mode

From: Frank Gevaerts <>
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:22:35 +0200

On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:54:59PM -0500, Paul Louden wrote:
> Rob Purchase wrote:
>> Sure, but the grid mode is just a stop-gap until a full touch WPS is
>> provided by default. I'd like to see the option removed once all the
>> main screens have been adapted (although the API to set grid mode
>> should remain as a convenience to plugins). In any case trying to use
>> a touch screen "blind" is a rather futile exercise.
> How is using the touch screen blind any different than using the iPod
> wheel blind? Neither have any physical feedback to let you know
> orientation other than the orientation of the player, yet people manage
> play, pause, next and previous just fine.

I'd use the mr100, and IIRC some gogears as examples. They have a flat
front with touch sensitive spots, so using them is very similar to using
grid mode on a touchscreen.

> The grid mode absolutely should not be removed - it's the ONLY way to
> allow full use of the player blind.

I agree. While I do think grid mode should not be the default, I think
it's useful enough to keep.

>>> Still an issue on the D2 - while it doesn't happen to you, that
>>> doesn't mean they can't or won't happen.
>> I haven't seen a single report of a user having trouble with buttons
>> being pressed when they didn't expect it, hence a non-issue.
> "Nobody's reported it, so it's a non issue" doesn't hold water. It still
> can happen or the hold switch wouldn't exist on it or other players.

We're talking about optional behaviour here. If it's disabled by
default, is this really an issue?

>>>> - People may start to expect it on other targets (but is this a
>>>> problem?)
>>> Yes, because several targets have hardware hold switches.
>> And another goal of Rockbox is to fully support the hardware where
>> appropriate - we can only act within its bounds. What is your point?
> My point was simply that there are players where this kind of
> functionality cannot exist.

We support functionality on players that have the hardware to support
it, not on others.

>> Support and more options cruft. How much does this option *really*
>> help? Is there a way to solve this problem in the existing UI without
>> creating a new option and making users choose between the ability to
>> hold and the ability to adjust volume easily? Let's look for
>> alternatives first.
>> Again what is the "support" objection, rather than just stating it as
>> fact?
> "Why does my hold switch not work in Rockbox?" For most normal users,
> especially those not used to the D2 software in advance, the expectation
> is that a hold switch prevents buttons from working. It's likely to
> cause some confusion or bug reports unless it's disabled by default.

It should be disabled by default I think

> Why even add this in when the option of having the grid-based mode is
> _far_ superior both in added functionality, and in not creating new
> confusion?

While I agree that grid mode is useful and should stay, I don't think
the availability of it is a reason to reject other features.

If I wanted a fixed-button layout device, I'd certainly not look at
touchscreen players first. People who buy a touchscreen player can be
expected to want to use it as one I think, so suggesting that they use
grid-mode is a bit silly IMHO.


"Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place.
Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are,
by definition, not smart enough to debug it." - Brian W. Kernighan
Received on 2009-10-22

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